This is question I just sent to Robb Wolf for his paleo podcast. If anyone reads this, please feel free to comment. I would love to hear contrary positions. This is an exciting topic for me, because I believe we should almost all be taking in some CHO post training to improve our nervous system recovery.
Post workout carbs are usually only discussed for their role in replenishing muscle glycogen. However, it is my position that any significant increase in muscle activity will result in increase utilization of acetylcholine. This will create a deficit in pre-synaptic acetylcholine stores after time. This explain the lack of coordination in all activities following intense exercise (if the training was hard enough).
I postulate that just as activity improves muscle uptake of CHO, it also improves nervous system tissue (neurons) uptake. So, there is a finite period of time to optimally replinish then acetylcholine stores and improve nervous system recovery following training.
This means not just the ability to train sooner, but to think clearer and have coordination to do other physical activity following a training session. Again, I am not so much concerned about the time domain, but the level of nervous system activity. An example would be a 45min heavy Clean and Jerk session. Even though this session may not have touched glycogen stores, doing several C&J at >90% 1RM will fry you for the day.
On to the question.....
What are your thoughts/opinions on the role carbohydrate (CHO) metabolism has on nervous system recovery following intense training?
Yesterday's podcast (21 Dec 2010), talked about adding liquid CHO to help replenish muscle glycogen post training. This seems to be applicable to longer training sessions and this seems to be widely accepted. But, what role does CHO metabolism have on recovery of the nervous system?
CHO metabolism will result in the production of many things, to include Acetyl-CoA. Does intense activity (physical or even mental) that causes an increase in nervous system firing and result in a decreased pre-synaptic acetylcholine levels? Does this decrease acetylcholine levels then cause the lack of coordination, fatigue, etc. common after intense activity? Do you guys think neuronal metabolism of CHO would provide acetyl-coA to combine with choline to replenish these synaptic stores of acetylcholine? If so, could this be a mechanism of improved nervous system recovery, seen with PWO CHO intake?
If we know there is as finite period of time to optimally replenish muscle glycogen with CHO, the PWO, could we assume the same thing about enhance neuronal uptake of CHO post activity?
If so, does this suggest there is a role for PWO CHO in intense lifting sessions, where nervous system involvement is high, but glycogen stores are maintained?
This gets long and if you actually ask this on air, please consider skipping this as I do not want to put words in James Fitzgerald's mouth, but....
Ancedotely, people report less fatigue, increased coordination when consuming CHO post workout. I have appreciated this myself (n=1). OPT stated this on an old CrossFit Radio program (episode 27). I e-mailed OPT this question and he stated he learned this from Poliquin. This statement got me thinking, how can CHO consumption improve CNS recovery....then I remember the Krebs cycle and how acetlycholine is made and came up with this ideal.
Thanks guys,
2 comments:
Pat,
This is super interesting. I must say I am not an expert with this stuff, although I do read alot. I look at this as a catch-22. Higher exercise intensity resulted in greater acetyl-CoA carboxylase (ACC) inactivation, which would result in greater FFA oxidation.It would still make sense in my mind for an individual to stick with a lower carbohydrate meal PWO if goal is fat loss. That being said (and this goes for everyone), if you are an individual who's job requires major activation from the CNS on motor units, it might make sense to intake some carbohydrates PWO, whether lean or not. The leaner folks would still get more IMO, but there is probably nothing wrong with a 1:1 protein to carb ratio even with someone looking to lose fat. I think this is where an individual needs to plan ahead with their training. If they do experience symptoms of acetylcholine deficiency PWO, and that day they know they can't get away with that, then some carbohydrate PWO should be planned. I think this is a good thing, as the more planned your training is, the more likely you are to succeed.
This begs another questions. How much carbohydrate is needed to replenish this neurotransmitter?? Would a small handful of berries alot with some eggs do?? Are carbohydrates even needed for replenishment? My understanding is that when circulating FFA are high thee is plenty of Acetyl-CoA to go around. Although again, I have no idea how long it takes to replenish.
I hope Mat answers that questions. Its a great one.
Ben,
I agree with you on almost all points. First, if someone is training for fatloss, I do not think they should supplememnt post-training. No doubt in my mind the increased metabolic/fatloss effects of exercise are because the body is attempting to breakdown adipose tissue to provide the free fatty acids to ultimately make acetylcoA and do this. This is the driving force for EPOC/afterburn/whatever you are calling it.
It follows that depending on where someone fits on the spectum, from fatloss to pure performance, their CHO are adjusted. OPT's Refuel does this, as it is weight-base supplement.
My biggest point, is if the above is possible, is there a window for optimal neuronal tissue uptake of carbs, ie the PWO for glycogen replenishment?
On thing I think most Paleo people get wrong is the need for whole food and the shying away from liquid nutrition. I think if we buy into this concept of post-training carbs, we need to use liquid nutrition, idealy just dextrose and whey protein. We want the insulin surge. Whole food takes too long to be digested and the PWO maybe closing by the time that meal of sweet potatoes and salmon reaches the end point.
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